Interview: Shepard Fairey
Talking with the pop-art provocateur of Andre the Giant and Obama poster fame
In the late 1980s, stickers and stencils of an ominous black-and-white face started mysteriously appearing on walls, poles, and utility boxes along the eastern seaboard, eventually showing up in cities across the country and globe. The ubiquitous images, based on a photo of pro wrestler Andre the Giant, established Shepard Fairey as a creator of iconic street art and a pop-art impresario. Today, the 38-year-old's Obey Giant company (motto: "Manufacturing Quality Dissent Since 1989") churns out posters, clothing, and limited-edition skateboards; his Studio Number One specializes in corporate branding. His recent work includes packaging for Led Zeppelin's greatest-hits box set and a poster for the "Shut Down Guantanamo" campaign.
In his prolific output, Fairey has tapped into the conflicting impulses of rebellion and entrepreneurship. He's comfortable with the contradiction. Yet he bristles at critics who say he's simply repackaging leftist propaganda and the work of obscure or anonymous artists for profit. Fairey spoke with Mother Jones about his art and the blurry line between appropriation and appreciation.
Mother Jones: Ever since the Andre the Giant posters, your art has resonated around the world. Why do you think people are so receptive to your style?
Shepard Fairey: I never set out to be a groundbreaking artist, in the sense of doing something that's never been done before. I set out to make stuff that communicated quickly and effectively, playing off of advertising, pop art, and pop culture. I thought, "If I'm going to put my work in the street, it really has to stand out from all the clutter." I wanted it to be analogous to the way advertising functions. I based the images, the style, the color palette on things that had worked on me. For example, the Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols cover really grabbed my attention; Russian Constructivism grabbed my attention. Barbara Kruger's work, Marlboro ads—you name it.
MJ: You've been criticized for using images from social movements of people of color. Do you feel that's based on your race?
SF: Of course. I think it's stupid, and I'm friends with Chuck D. If there's a militant black guy out there, it's him, you know? I'm working on a clothing collaboration with [Public Enemy] for the 20th anniversary of It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back. I give money to the Zapatistas for all the prints of Subcomandante Marcos that I made. I just raised almost $100,000 for Darfur. I challenge anybody to fuck with that, know what I mean? It's not like I'm just jumping on some cool rebel cause for the sake of exploiting it for profit. People like to talk shit, but it's usually to justify their own apathy.
I don't want to demean anyone's struggles through casual appropriation of something powerful; that's not my intention. I met a girl who was Mexican, who got totally in my face about my parody of Che Guevara's image, which was based on the fact that it's already been really exploited to the point that it's become somewhat meaningless. And she was like, "You desecrate my compañero." I was like, "For one thing, he wasn't Mexican; he was Argentinean..." It's like me saying that you insulted someone from Europe and I'm of European descent. It's such a stretch. She wasn't in the mountains with Che eating squirrels. It's just ridiculous.
MJ: Some of your critics say that the images you use weren't meant to be owned or commercialized, such as images from the Wobblies, or communist propaganda.
SF: I can see that gripe, but that's coming from a perspective of insiders. If they are getting upset, it's generally for nostalgic reasons. A lot of the stuff that I do is designed to try to circulate things that I think are awesome back into a new crowd. Even if I'm like a hip-hop artist recontextualizing a piece like a sample, I'm not going to say I own it, because I don't feel that way. When I'm using someone else's work as a reference point, I'm just trying to give them props.
There's a piece by [Cuban artist] René Mederos that I used, thinking, "Well, how would I ever pay this guy anyway because he's in Cuba?" All I really changed about that graphic was I put flowers into the gun and put a peace logo in it. With Castro and Che on horses I was definitely manipulating the original intention, but at the same time, it was a really beautifully done poster and tweaking it for my anti-war agenda was a way to pass that graphic along. (See "Scan Artist?") So when [Mederos' estate] contacted me, I immediately paid him the exact same royalty rate that any artist would be paid.
SCAN ARTIST?
Shepard Fairey's critics accuse him of plagiarizing other artists. He says he's giving props to propaganda. Some examples:

Fairey's "Guns and Roses," right, tweaked a 1968 Chinese cultural revolution poster, left.

A '60s pro-Pyongyang poster, left, is made to Obey as a limited-run print, right.

Fairey paid less than $1,000 to the estate of René Mederos, the source of "Cuban Rider," right.
No artist has ever come to me and said, "Hey, I'm unhappy that you took this and used it." Most say, "I really like what you're doing; I'm glad you did that. Now that we know each other, let's do a more official collaboration." They see the way I'm using the images is not disrespectful, and they dig it. A lot of people are just taking cheap shots at me because it's an easy way for them to say, "He made it because he lifted this image, but I'm doing all my shit from scratch because I'm keeping it motherfucking real, dog." Meanwhile, they're eating pizza and smoking weed and not touching any art materials, whereas I just worked a lot.
MJ: You've written that there's no specific politics behind what you do, but street art by its nature is political if only because it redefines public space. Are you being coy when you say that your art isn't political?
SF: What I've said is that I don't have a specific political affiliation. I've been making a lot of work that opposes the war. But it's a slippery slope when people start saying you're an activist. Street art, of course, is political, because it's illegal, so the very act of doing it is an act of defiance. The argument that most lawmakers make about graffiti is that it's illegal because it's an eyesore, but you could easily argue that a lot of advertising is an eyesore.
MJ: How do you feel when stores like Wal-Mart sell T-shirts that rip off your images?
SF: One of the reasons I started my clothing line was because I went into an Urban Outfitters and they were bootlegging my star logo on T-shirts. To see it in there, just ripped off, was definitely upsetting to me, because I was still totally broke at the time. And the reason I get pissed off about stuff like that is because I didn't build up the resonance for that image just to hand it off to someone to exploit.
Dear Shepard Fairey,
My name Aura Bogado. Remember it. The fact that you have chosen, on more than one occasion, to incorrectly describe an exchange we had several years ago provides an opportunity for me to set the record straight; and it should result in an opportunity for you to move beyond your self-victimization. Although you assume I am Mexican, I am Argentine. Although you assume I am someone else's nameless property I am my own human being. And although you assume I am a young, dumb girl, I am intimately close to what I write and talk about.
Instead of using my name in your book, "Obey: Supply and Demand", you refer to me instead as an artist's girlfriend when you describe an email I sent you about a decade ago regarding a parody you created of Che Guevara (although I remember it instead as a public exchange we had at a gallery). In your book, when you describe me as "an outspoken Mexican girl", you write that I said that I referred to Che as "my compañero", and that I felt that you were desecrating my culture. You then go on to explain that "Che wasn't Mexican, he was Argentine." It's baffling that you would write that, as it is widely known that Che is considered a "compañero" throughout Latin America, including Mexico.
Suddenly, two years later, you tell a very different account of the conversation. In an interview published in the March/April 2008 issue of Mother Jones, you talk about me in this way:
"I met a girl who was Mexican, who got totally in my face about my parody of Che Guevara's image, which was based on the fact that it's already been really exploited to the point that it's become somewhat meaningless. And she was like, 'You desecrate my companero.' I was like, 'For one thing, he wasn't Mexican; he was Argentinean ...' It's like me saying that you insulted someone from Europe and I'm of European descent. It's such a stretch. She wasn't in the mountains with Che eating squirrels. It's just ridiculous."
I have to credit the fact that you do have one thing right in your latest tirade: I was never in the mountains with Che eating squirrels. Other than that, you are dead wrong. That brown girl whose name you seem to forget is not Mexican. That brown, nameless girl was instead born and raised in Argentina. That girl's father is a Communist who survived the atrocities of a brutal dictatorship. That girl has a brother who lectures on Guevarismo - a political teaching of communism derived from Che Guevara that focuses on radical social change through armed struggle. That girl grew up hearing story after story about El Che, and although she is not a Communist, she learned at an early age where Che was from and who he represents to her people. That girl is me, Aura Bogado, and it's no stretch to state that I never turned to you to learn my Che 101 - that would be ridiculous.
My apologies: did I say you only got one thing right in your rant? It seems I left something out - you mentioned that I said that you desecrate Che. I will write now what I said then: your work disrespects icons of color. That is what I remember about our conversation, I was trying (and obviously failed) to explain the way in which you culturally appropriate the images of icons of color, like Che and others, for capitalist gain. That was the crux of what I talked about. You never schooled me about where Che was from - his nationalities (we sometimes consider him Argentine and Cuban, not to mention that he was an Internationalist) never came up when we talked; yet somehow, nearly a decade later, something about the event just seems to stick with you. It seeps into your book, it seeps into your interview. I can only hope that an accurate account of our conversation will seep into your consciousness as well. As an artist, you are not forced to agree with my interpretation of your images - but as a human being, you should be held accountable to tell the truth. Good luck with that one.
Sincerely,
That Brown Girl (also known as Aura Bogado)
Could you please copy/paste or link to where he called you 'that brown girl?'
Your insinuation here is quite troubling, though it does help to paint your need for attention.
Hmmm... fishy!
Mr. Fairey says that no artist has ever gone to him and said, "Hey, I'm unhappy that you took this and used it." Can that have anything to do with the fact they lived in a different (preferably far away) country and/or died a long time ago - like the Chinese and Korean poster authors? Oh well, that's just a guess...
A copy is a copy - if you are of the opinion it's ok to use other people's work, then you shouldn't kick up a stink when other people use yours. And it smells like hypocrisy when the artist blasts those who copy his copies. Like in "One of the reasons I started my clothing line was because I went into an Urban Outfitters and they were bootlegging my star logo on T-shirts. To see it in there, just ripped off, was definitely upsetting to me, because I was still totally broke at the time. And the reason I get pissed off about stuff like that is because I didn't build up the resonance for that image just to hand it off to someone to exploit."
Maybe (just maybe) the creators of the original artworks - or propaganda pieces, or whatever this guy wants to call them - didn't build up the resonance for those images just to hand it off to Mr. Fairey to exploit.
k
Che wasn't Mexican, but he sure did look like Cantinflas!
*Not to mention when interrogated by Bolivian rangers before his execution, Che declared a pan Latin American identity...
His response to the last question is one of the most arrogant and misguided rants I've read in a long time (Pro-Clinton rants notwithstanding).
Rocknroll.
Aura Bogado, one, he didn't call you brown in the interactions you present in your text. You identified yourself as brown, and then ironically, as dumb. Are you highlighting an equation, or are you insecure around white people, or think they are racist or false? two, it's too bad he is still using the experience with you to explain his position. It's a stale anecdote, if, like you say so, it happened years ago.
Three, what ever happened to the Zapatistas? All that money that was raised probably just went to buying some transgenico corn flour by Maseca. Go revolution.
Lastly, total softball interview. "Are you being coy; how do you feel; why do you think people are so receptive to your style," are some choice bits.
Aura,
I think you are extrapolating a lot based on your assumptions. I don't think things were stated by me the way you are interpreting them. I never said that you didn't know where Che was from. However, I be glad never to mention you again. By the way, I was told you were Mexican by more than one person, it was not an "ignorant" assumption I made.
-Shepard
Shame on u r on giving less than $1000 to the cuban estate of Rene Menderos.
How much r u making now...I was going to let you know of duplications going on of your work but @@**@# that!
I guess everyones trying to make a buck now.
Thank you for speaking out for yourself, Aura Bogado. It's a shame that so many so called "radicals" get sucked in by Shepard Fairey's self serving appropriation of revoluntionary art. He is ultimately a Capitalist, who's "quality dissent" is manufactured in sweatshops in China. It is unfortunate that so many contemporary street artists continue to exploit the images and labor of people of color for their own profit and hype.
Aura me parece muy bien que hagas tus precisiones pero limitar la imagen que el mismo comunismo hace de sus líderes para su política comnercialización, es exagerado. De todas formas el comunismo y el capitalismo a mi y mucha gente más nos tienen saturados. O sea que si Mr Shepard tiene ganas de ridiculizar al Che o el Cha cha cha me da lo mismo.Es más me encanta la gente que puede ir por sobre la estúpida seriedad que algunos les quieren dar a simples personas que tomaron partido en algún momento de la historia. El che, castro, bin landen, el papa , dios, jesus, bush, obama, etc, etc, etc son personas o entes públicos sujetos a cualquier tipo de crítica o sátira. Viva la libertad de expresión!!!!!!!! Mr Shepar yo soy argentino también y lo felicito por su obra y su contradicción la misma que moviliza a Aura a escribir su carta, libremente desde argentina y no de Cuba donde deber´â pedir permiso hasta para tirarse un pedo.
Short interview, but long enough for a blatant contradiction:
"A lot of the stuff that I do is designed to try to circulate things that I think are awesome back into a new crowd. Even if I'm like a hip-hop artist recontextualizing a piece like a sample, I'm not going to say I own it, because I don't feel that way. When I'm using someone else's work as a reference point, I'm just trying to give them props."
Vs.
"One of the reasons I started my clothing line was because I went into an Urban Outfitters and they were bootlegging my star logo on T-shirts. To see it in there, just ripped off, was definitely upsetting to me, because I was still totally broke at the time. And the reason I get pissed off about stuff like that is because I didn't build up the resonance for that image just to hand it off to someone to exploit."
I remember when you started showing the Giant on the streets around RISD back in the '80's. I was very impressed. I had been in NYC back when Keith Haring started with his chalk drawings in the subway and you are way better than he was. For a long time I didn't know what you were trying to get across with your Giant images. I thought, wow, this guy is really into The Princess Bride. But over time, your body of work has made it clear, and we really need a guy like you right now, to distill the zeitgeist. With the consolidation of news sources so we now get only a "party line," with the fighting of wars for the benefit of Exxon and Halliburton, we have lost our democracy. Voices of dissent, like yours, that get out among the grassroots, and do it with beauty and consistency and visual punch, are the only things that make America safe for democracy. Look at the election of Obama -- it was made possible by 30 years of movies and television that displayed positive black images. Art changed people's attitudes and art made political change possible. Any artist who throws up their hands in despair can look at that and say, political art is worth it, it has been proved to be worth it. Your poster of Obama is a thing of perfection, but that's beside the point; it's only one piece. What you're doing, as a political artist out to remind the people to defend the best in themselves and the best in society, you are an inspiration. I am so happy that you do what you do and I have the greatest respect for you.
Shelah
http://www.shelahhorvitz.com
Those darn Latino revolutionary artists ripped of the artistic effort of good white folk like Mayakovsky Lissitsky and Rodchenko. How dare they. As a Canadian of Ukrainian decent I'm really pissed off that they appropriated the revolutionary imagery of Eastern European white people. Not that I'm racist or anything. No sirree. But darnit, all Art is race specific and I'll be damned if a socially concerned person that isn't the same colour as the source image artist should be allowed to be inspired by it. Hell, that would be all crosscultural and stuff. Who knows where that could lead!!
Shepard fairey isa total hyprocrite. How do i know this cause he is now making large dollars. Oh is he donating to you guys? Well then you are all scholi...commies. You hate the goverment who doesnt? maybe im wrong but at least i can say my opinion.
I do not get this guy and the interview does not help much. His web site says he's into "dissent" and "propaganda" and he's also into corporate advertising. He's at the epicenter of this mass movement but doesn't have to explain what it means to him or anyone else. All we know is what the colors of the movement are and a few vague words like "hope" and "progress" that any political movement
(right or left) could easily appropriate for itself.
everyone who's knocking Fairey i just would like to say.. HE'S AN ARTIST! He's not trying to break into your house and rape your children. He's not trying to hurt anyone. He has an idea, a message if you will. Fairey just wants to get his idea/message out any way possible, he's trying to make this world a better place, he's encouraging others to use their mind. People are saying he's a terrible person and a phony. dude he's just trying to help!!
those of you who arn't artist and are knocking Shepard are, for a lack of better words, retarded. you don't understand the mind of an artist let alone the genius Shepard Fairey is! hell i dont fully understand him and ive been an artist every since i can remember. [deleted]ing about his art or him isn't going to accomplish anything at all.
all i have to say is Shepard Fairey is one of the most amazing artist of today. perhaps even the next Andy Warhol, or even the next M.C. Escher. his mind compares to that of Einstein.
Shepard Fairey or Shepard
Shepard Fairey or Shepard Phoney?
artist?
actually the obvious, though unintentional, strength of his art is that he has been able to sell dissent to the masses. The move itself is rife with contradictions not only from fairey, who himself contributes to driving icons/movements to be "really exploited to the point that it's become somewhat meaningless", but also to the coffeeshop revolutionaries who buy his swag. Just like warhol, who added a second blank panel to a painting (to fetch twice the price), sheepherd has illuminated the contradictory and mindless nature of mass consumerism. To top it off, he's done it as a staunch capitalist. This would have been the move, but listening to his weak defenses against graphic plagiarism and use of revolutionary iconography, this is definitely not the intent.
Unfortunately, as the commercial sensationalism of the icons wear down, so will their once powerful messages. Because of his detachment from any revolutionary movement or strife, he is able to exploit powerful images (powerful to some) and render them to commercial fodder. Like wise, the market is so detached that they buy it.
Yes, we are the top 5% of the richest people on earth, and sheepherd has figured out how to sell us our own fuckin stupidity and, according to his interviews, he's also sold it to himself...
what?
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