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Southern White Culture
Kathleen Parker muses on the Republican Party's woes:
Not all Southern Republicans are wing nuts. Nor does the GOP have a monopoly on ignorance or racism. And, the South, for all its sins, is also lush with beauty, grace and mystery. Nevertheless, it is true that the GOP is fast becoming regionalized below the Mason-Dixon line and increasingly associated with some of the South's worst ideas.
It is not helpful (or surprising) that "birthers" — conspiracy theorists who have convinced themselves that Barack Obama is not a native son — have assumed kudzu qualities among Republicans in the South. In a poll commissioned by the liberal blog Daily Kos, participants were asked: "Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?"
Hefty majorities in the Northeast, the Midwest and the West believe Obama was born in the United States. But in the land of cotton, where old times are not by God forgotten, only 47 percent believe Obama was born in America and 30 percent aren't sure.
Southern Republicans, it seems, have seceded from sanity.
Well, look, I like magnolia groves and bluegrass music too, but let's call a spade a spade. Parker never actually uses the word "white" in her column, but later on she makes it clear that's what she's talking about. Not "the South." Not "Southern Republicans." Southern whites.
Parker says Republicans need to "drive a stake through the heart of old Dixie," and she's right. The rest of us need to help.
NOTE: Penultimate paragraph redacted on advice of my frontal lobe.
The Republican party, with
The Republican party, with its' notional national status, may be the only thing keeping Old Dixie in the union now.
Damnit Kevin! I really wish
Damnit Kevin! I really wish I got to this post before your redactions.
The Southern problem has been America's biggest problem from the get-go. From the 3/5 compromise, to Dred Scott, to the Civil War, to Jim Crow, to the Texas oilman subculture, to the Southern evangelical extremists and anti-Democrat conspiracy whackjobs (but I repeat myself)... this culture has been a lodestone around America's neck for two and a quarter centuries.
Now I'm not saying that Northern culture in antebellum times was a paradise of progressive thought and equality but I have to wonder... how much more could America have accomplished if it weren't for its biggest penalty... the Southern white?
Fuck you.
Fuck you.
If that offends you
If that offends you then you are the subject of the post. I live in the south and it doesn't offend me. I agree completely.
jhaller ( 2nd poster)...what
jhaller ( 2nd poster)...what an ignorant, stereotyping racist statement about southern whites...that a way to group us all together....
jhaller ( 2nd poster)...what
jhaller ( 2nd poster)...what an ignorant, stereotyping racist statement about southern whites...that a way to group us all together....
Is it okay to think that
Is it okay to think that Obama is a native born citizen and still ask what documents would historians be looking for and have they been presented yet?
Would historians writing about Obama be satisfied with an modern electronic copy of a 1961 birth certificate, or would they be looking for the original document? (Perhaps a sharp thinking blogger could go ask a couple of ph.d historians, the Dalleks and the Doris Goodwins and whomever else as to what role the current documents we have would play to a historian.)
Is it okay to think he's a native born citizen from Hawaii, but wonder why he can't present his own verified and valid copy of a birth certificate and instead stonewalls presenting his own and ask how many people don't have a valid copy of their birth certificate in their own personal files?
Is it okay to think he's a native born citizen of Hawaii in the office of the President and wonder why any of us are so lax on the clause that makes certain demands specifically of holders of that office?
It is okay
It is okay because the State of Hawaii confirmed his birth a number of times. End of story.
no, its not ok. you're a moron.
now stop trolling and just go back to watching lou dobbs.
People keep asking for more
People keep asking for more proof of the President's birth taking place in America. Outside of a legal birth certificate and annoucements in the local press, there isn't much else.
People asking for more do not want an answer but only to cause more questions.
So correct!!! They DON'T
So correct!!! They DON'T want answers. They only want to keep this garbage going as long as they possibly can. They figure if it stays alive and in the mainstream more and more people will begin to question and believe them. It has gained more momentum than it EVER SHOULD HAVE, and it speaks volumes about the state of our national politics. ATTACK GOONS and WINGNUTS ON PARADE!!!
The same as everyone else
He has submitted the documents as everyone else, except for some reason it's not good enough. That is strange.
NOT SO STRANGE!!
The idea is to keep this birth certificate thing (marathon of crap that it is!) going and going and going. N O T H I N G is going to satisfy these right-wing nuts. The more documents anyone shows, the more responses given...it's all going to be bogus, phony, and conspiratorial. The game is to keep searching, poking, prodding and digging hoping to find something (ANYTHING) on Obama, and this is all they have. It is orchestrated to keep attacks going, distract, detract destruct and attempt to ruin his presidency with the ultimate goal of removing him from office and overturning the election.
The more the media thrusts this on the national stage, the happier these nuts are.
These redactions are
These redactions are unacceptable! I demand to know what Kevin said so that i can be offended by it.
i recommend we submit a FOIA request
After all, Kevin says he supports open, transparent blogging.
I think the redacted
I think the redacted paragraph should be available to $-paying subscribers. A new business model for bloggers: snark for hire!
And surely this is a parody of concern trolls:
"Is it okay to think that Obama is a native born citizen and still ask what documents would historians be looking for and have they been presented yet?"
In the 2008 election, there was one candidate we KNOW was not born in the US. It was the White guy. Get over it.
The unredacted paragraph
tagged as:- result
I think I have been able to reconstruct the redacted paragraph. It says:
But taken as a whole, Southern white culture is hard-rocking, ass-kicking, t-shirt obsessed, racist, meth-addicted, pro-Jesus, anti-Jesus' message, gun-waving entirely too enamored with NASCAR, and latently homosexual. Jim Webb can pretty it up all he wants but it's really about men who can't get over what their uncles did to them as little boys so they take it out on racial minorities.
WOW
Great post. Accurate too!
I take offense to that
I take offense to that 'meth-addicted' slur - that's the mid-west.
"redoing redacted"
I wish that I'd seen this sooner, but I could've lived without the ignorant, asinine, hate-filled yankee elitism bullshit of the above comment.
What do you actually KNOW about the south? Have you ever even BEEN here? I doubt it. You probably have never left your gated community, have you precious.
It's THAT smug, ignorant, fear-mongering alienation of southerners that has damned near destroyed the ragged remnants of what used to be our democratic party. Why do y'all think that John Kerry couldn't make it? 'CAUSE HE WROTE US ALL OFF. As much as I love & respect Al Gore, IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CLOSE ENOUGH FOR THE REPUBLICUNTS TO **STEAL** IN 2000 IF HE'D SPOKEN TO HIS OWN PEOPLE MORE AND BETTER. He got all wrapped-up in the praise and fawning of the rich white "liberal" elites of the NE & Cali, and felt like a rock star, and forgot to BE AL GORE AND GET THIS SHIT DONE.
It's EXACTLY this hate-filled bigotry AGAINST the south, especially by ignoring the very EXISTENCE of those of us who have spent our entire LIVES fighting against the racists, the sexists, the recidivists, the knuckle-walking mouth-breathers --- THIS IS WHY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND ALL WHO CALL THEMSELVES "PROGRESSIVES" AND/OR "LIBERALS" HAVE BECOME SUCH A TOTAL CLUSTERFUCK and we are in such danger of losing control of Congress. Yes, WE CAN do better, and in November, we DID.
But y'all keep this republicunt-style bigotry and bullshit up, that will REALLY help us bring this country back together, you BETCHA!
(the general mood of this discussion reminds me of the secessionist whack-jobs in Alaska, so yeah, y'all deserved that "you BETCHA!")
Hmmmm
Bluegrass music? Jim Webb? Is Kevin talking about Southern white culture, or Scots-Irish culture? They're not quite the same thing, although there is much overlap.
right, it's all Scots-Irish.
right, it's all Scots-Irish. Especially bluegrass/mountain music's definitive instrument, the banjo. Oh wait...
Listen more to your frontal lobe, Kevin
Let's play the substitution game:
"Needless to say, there are plenty of individual blacks who are wholly admirable...."
"Needless to say, there are plenty of individual Jews who are wholly admirable...."
I think we'd all know what to call that.
This post sucks, Kevin.
Holier then thou
Brock,
let's play substitution game:
"Needless to say, there are plenty of individual neoconservatives who are wholly admirable...."
"Needless to say, there are plenty of individual blue dogs who are wholly admirable...."
Substituting one construct in for another doesn't excuse you from missing the point.
Yes, we'd call that racist
But the reason is that you substituted racial/ethnic groups for cultural groups. Kevin is indicting a group that is consciously self selected and is defined by a set of behaviors, norms and beliefs. It seems like a pretty obvious point. The "substitution game" is probably the most ridiculous way of attempting to make a point i've ever seen. "See kevin, if i change the words you said to totally different words what you said is RACIST". How about I try it with your post.
you said: "Let's play the substitution game".
change that to: "Let's play the kill babies game".
I think we all know what to call you. A baby killer. Oh no!
What's with the gif image?
Hey, Kevin owes us at least the text with no color (or black-background) in HTML. Not this Blog_Southern_Culture_Redaction_0.gif nonsense.
Wow
Even with the patronizing few caveats this post and the comments so far are offensively simplistic and demonstrates ignorance of the totality of Southern history and culture. Much like the folks you attempt to criticize, your opinions are narrow. Unfortunately, I'm heading into work in a few for a 12 hour shift which I'll repeat tomorrow and so don't have time to give a proper rebuttal. Hopefully someone else will. I've been reading you for a few years Kevin and after reading this post my respect for you has diminished.
Eh
You know, who cares about your history or culture? The world has been lectured for centuries now on the beauty and specialness of "southern culture." And no one outside the south really cares, any more than you care about what makes Minnesotans special. You can continue to erect little shrines to your petty regionalisms all you want, but stop thinking anyone else should give a shit.
And, hey, guess what, I don't have time for a proper rebuttal either -- the original sin of "southern culture" is a crime so monstrous that our country never will properly grapple with it. Which I guess I pretty much have to accept. But I'm certainly not going to waste any time caring about your stupid precious "culture."
the original sin of southern
the original sin of southern culture was also the original sin of the United States of America. I'm not making a special pleading for the south, but the economic entanglements of slavery went far north fo the Mason-Dixon line. The southerners have a specific burden and a special responsibility here, but it's also worth remembering that the civil rights movement [a multi-regional effort led by Southerners who were/are black] had alot more success dismantling Jim Crow in the South than they did grappling with economically and politically institutionalized racism in city planning, in housing policy and in distribution of economic access in the north. There's a Randy newman song called "Rednecks" that you might ought to take a listen to.
here's the thing: you want to discount petty regionalisms but you also want to parcel up the entire history of American racism and attach it to the south. it just isn't that simple. The kind of condescending vitriol that you're pushing here makes it much harder for those of us who want a better South to clean up the mess, and it vastly oversimplifies the complexity of American, not just southern, history.
White southerners as a whole make convenient scapegoats, but addressing us as an undifferentiated whole ignores the fact that the real problem is a class of white, southern politicians and other elites who have exploited the idea of "southern heritage" and it's codified racism in order to gain and hold power. Part of this has been, as you say, an ongoing lecture about the "specialness and beauty" of southern culture. You might be sick of that, but what I'M sick of is the way this representation is taken for the actual southern culture by people who can't be bothered to tell the difference because it makes it easier to carve the world up into good places and bad places.
You think you're sick of that "specialness and beauty?" Given that it's been used to cover up and substitute for and dominate what's actually special and beautiful about the south, I think I might be more sick of it than you. but at least I can tell the real stuff from the nonsense.
Amen
Amen
Hey...
Somewhere north of 70% of white Southerners think Obama is not a citizen, or are unsure if he's a citizen.
The broken, bastardized version of democracy that the Constitution lays out (the Senate, mainly) is a direct result of trying to placate Southern racism.
So really, piss off. Get your house in order, and then you can show indignant Southern pride. From where us non-Southerners sit, you lot have been fucking up our country for nigh on three centuries.
A request from a Southerner
Friends,
I wrote about 5 paragraphs of diplomacy and lost it somehow. Here's a nutshell:
If you really want to change the South, come down here and help me. Please, please stop throwing around insults about incest and inherent Southern stupidity. You know what they say about honey and vinegar. I understand you're frustrated. This is a strange place. We are proud and fierce. But a lot of us are tender-hearted, so ease up. And keep fighting the good fight, with grace, not meanness.
Awk.
FYI, "calling a spade a spade" seems about as charged a phrase in certain circles as 'eenie, meenie minie moe.'
The Only Contribution
the South has made to our nation, in my view, is to have provided the colorful characters in Tennessee Williams' plays.
so, Williams' characters are
so, Williams' characters are a contribution but his overall writing isn't ? (facepalm)
How about:
Martin Luther King (Jr &Sr), Muddy Waters, Elvis Presley, Ellaa Baker, Howlin' Wolf, Sam Phillips, Ralph Stanley, Richard Wright, Ralph Ellison, Dizzy Gillespie, Louis Armstrong, Bessie Smith, Ma Rainey, William Faulkner, Flannery O'connor, Muhammad Ali, Randy Newman, Johnny Cash, Walker percy, Maya Angelou, Zora Neale Hurston, B. B. King, doc Watson, Willie Nelson, Woody Guthrie, Jimmy Rogers, the Carter Family, Hank Williams, ...
well done, people. this is
well done, people. this is going to be a great day.
William Techumseh Sherman,
William Techumseh Sherman, where are you now that we really need you?
I saw him just last week.
He's in the Metropolitan Museum in New York. There is a stunning bust of him in the Saint-Gaudens exhibit that is said to be a perfect resemblance.
SNARKI?!?!? How in the FUCK
SNARKI?!?!? How in the FUCK could you SAY THAT?!?!?!
This can NOT be the same "Snarki, child of Loki" who comments at "World O'Crap," 'cause I've never seen GENOCIDAL MANIA in THAT person's comments.
I'm not naive, I never bought the antebellum romanticism of "GWTW" or the bullshit film of all time, "Birth Of A Nation," but GAWD-DAMN, that was a HATEFUL, IGNORANT, EVIL FUCKING THING TO SAY.
Do you go to Indian Reservations and yell out that Andrew Jackson didn't "FINISH THE JOB," too???!?!??! Or better yet, run around in a Custer costume, pointing at Native Americans and laughing?
Actually, after you made that comment, I really wish that you WOULD go down to the Rez and do something that fucking stupid, 'cause I'd donate both of my gravitationally-challenged tits to science/charity/whatever TO SEE THE RESULT.
I am horrified. Just flat-out horrified by you.
The responce to my post so
The responce to my post so far greatly resembles in character the responces the Southern white racists that I work with and frequently debate generally offer. Bravo for making my point.
yeah, that's kind of what I
yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to get at, in too many words. But you know, Minnesotans, They're all like Michelle Bachmann. Except the ones who live in Lake Woebegone, where everyone is exceptional.
yeah, that's kind of what I
yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to get at, in too many words. But you know, Minnesotans, They're all like Michelle Bachmann. Except the ones who live in Lake Woebegone, where everyone is exceptional.
For an entirely unredacted version of the same ideas,
from a Son of the South (who would know), you really should read Phil Nugent:
http://philnugentexperience.blogspot.com/2009/08/race-against-time.html
Having lived in the South
Having lived in the South now for almost my entire adult life, I find myself living in a place that has become non-Southern (that is, creeping blue refugees have metastasized to such an extent that my county voted for Obama by a margin of 70-30 and was probably instrumental in swinging the entire state). Which is to say, that I have difficulty putting myself back in the bunker mentality I adopted to try to survive undergraduate and graduate school, feeling totally out of place.
Having said that, I must also admit that I recognize many of the habits and thought patterns that I detest most about the kind of people who we characterize as birthers in people I have known in the North -- but the point is that these people never form a critical mass of the population, and therefore, either come to realize that they are outliers or are talked out of the more extreme elements of these views by neighbers or friends or family members.
What makes "the South" distinctive is that they form that critical mass, which then drives electoral behavior and attitudes in ways that are clearly and significantly different from any other multi-state region, even regions that continue to have significant red state politics, like the west. I am going to go way out on a limb to say that what makes this difference so pronounced is the amount of resources dedicated to primary and secondary education. That's where it all starts. Everything else just flows downstream from that.
And yes, I have long resented the notion that the only regionalism in the United States that deserves respect or recognition is southern. It still annoys me when my mother in law says things like "One Southern funeral is worth two New England weddings." To which I used to say, "have you ever been to a funeral or wedding outside of Virginia?"
Poll question
I wonder if you asked the same group of people if Hawaii is part of the United States if the poll numbers would be much different.
Nice post. All white
Nice post. All white southerners (black southerners exluded - of course) are all racist mullet-wearing trailer trash.
Great stuff, Kevin. You really earned your money today. I mean, there are no - repeat NO - racists up north. Look at Boston. Racial harmony. Philadelphia? Check. New York. Nothing there. Los Angeles - a sure-fire melting pot.
Please continue to pin all of America's woes on the Southern white man.
Idiot.
Better liberals, please.
All white southerners (black
All white southerners (black southerners exluded - of course) are all racist mullet-wearing trailer trash.
Exactly! How else do you explain me?
we've lived in NC for 12
we've lived in NC for 12 years now. and as far as i can tell, there is no more racism here than there is in upstate NY, where we came from. there seems to be an equal percentage of rednecks, too. AFAICT, the big difference is that it's warmer in NC.
which makes me really despise the whole 'mythical south' thing. maybe there's some of that in Charleston or New Orleans or Savannah, but there's nothing mystical about NC. it's lovely, but it's not Gothic mystique and witty intrigue by night and iced-tea on the plantation porch by day - it's more like Pennsylvania with highs in the mid 90s.
you say that you don't notice
any more racism in NC than in NY, but the begs the question of whether you are white yourself. I've noticed more and more as I get older that white people often just aren't aware of racism because they of course do not experience it. That's not to fault them, its just a natural consequence. Its difficult to realize if it never happens to you.
you say that you don't notice
any more racism in NC than in NY, but the begs the question of whether you are white yourself. I've noticed more and more as I get older that white people often just aren't aware of racism because they of course do not experience it. That's not to fault them, its just a natural consequence. Its difficult to realize if it never happens to you.